tv Piers Morgan Live CNN March 3, 2014 9:00pm-10:01pm PST
breaking news, president obama has wrapped up a cabinet level meeting at the white house about russia and the crisis in ukraine. armed men, what will the president do? >> we are examining a whole series of steps, economic, diplomatic, that will isolate russia. >> will it be enough to stop vladimir putin? blade runner on trial. did oscar pistorius murder his model girlfriend? or was it a tragic accident? and from one oscar to another. the parties, the highs, the loys, everything you could probably want to know about the oscars, including this
extraordinary moment. >> guess what, pizza's here. >> the surprise pizza delivering star of hollywood's biggest night. how was the tip? the pizza man will be here live. >> russia on the move in ukraine. president obama's options. host of cnn's fareed zakaria gps. his book is soviet fate and loss. welcome to both of you. fareed, are we seeing or are we not seeing the beginning of a new cold war? >> it's not really a cold war, piers, because russia is not the superpower it once was. this is a country that is in many ways that tragically diminished what it was, one of the greatest losses of empire in the last 20 years that has happened to it, but i think what you are seeing is a conflict that is very reminiscent of the cold war, so that russia will
veto any action in the united nations. the west will probably be almost all united in condemnation, if not in specific actions. there is -- there are many pieces of this that are going to divide the world and what president obama has to figure out is how do you demonstrate -- the key thing here is to demonstrate to russia and the world that we cannot accept the principle that a country that feels, for whatever reason, there's something going wrong in his neighborhood can simply an ex-a part of a neighboring state. you want to make sure you send that signal, while recognizing ukraine is a very complicated situation. lots of people there would rather be part of russia. all of that can be negotiated. it's amenable to diplomacy, it should not be amenable to masked men in ski masks, with black uniforms going in and simply asserting by brute force that
this is what they're going to do. that is a principle that should not stand in the 21st century. >> let's play a clip, before i go to you, steven. this is samantha powell, the u.s. ambassador to the u.n. laying down her marker today. >> all of the self-serving rhetoric we have heard from russian officials in recent days, there is nothing that justifies russian conduct. as i said in our last session, russia's actions speak much louder than its words, what is happening today is not a human rights protection mission, and it is not a consensual intervention. what is happening today is a dangerous military intervention in ukraine. it is an act of aggression, it must stop. >> why is this not just an appalling abuse of power by vladimir putin? >> well, it may be that, but it's a lot more. let me try to answer the question you asked fareed, is it
a cold war? i've been arguing for 18 years we were in a cold war. if it looks like, smells like, tastes like behaves like a cold war, it's a cold war. here's the reality, we call it a new divide between east and west europe has descended, not in berlin, but on russia's boarders, in the heart of slavic civilization. we've lived long enough to know what that means, the divide in berlin was terribly dangerous. we were lucky to survive it, on russia's boarders for decades to come, the possibility of provocation, we are in an exceedingly dangerous moment. i would call this a fateful turning point. there's only one question in my mind. is it really true, as it's being said in the united states and europe, that russia and putin is solely to blame for this outcome? i think that's not correct. >> okay. explain to me before we go back to fareed, why we should not be
blaming vladimir putin, since many people are lining up to do just that. >> i will be as brief as i can, we began in the 1990, 20 years ago, moving nato to russia's boarders, it's right now on russia's borders. this was a bipartisan policy. clinton began, bush continued it, obama carried it on. during this period. 14 years he's been in power, putin made one point repeatedly. i have two red lines. you remember the red lines, obama used to have one in syria. putin means his. one red line is in the former soviet republic of georgia, you'll recall we had a war there in 2008, a proxy war. the other and far more important was in ukraine. i believe by the approach we've taken by ukraine. we meaning washington and the eu, that we have crossed his red line. fareed is right, it's not a good thing when guys in black masks are running around. they began running around in kiev when we overthrew the elected government there.
>> okay, let's play a clip from president obama before i come back to you, this is him talking about the situation today, when he met israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. >> i think the world is largely united in recognizing that the steps russia has taken are a violation of ukraine's sovereignty. ukraine's territorial integrity, they're a violation of international law. i think the strong condemnation it's received from countries around the world indicates a degree to which russia's on the wrong side of history on this. >> you're a cagey politician, and you've been a successful world leader for a long time. he's paranoid about what he perceives to have gone on here, he thinks the west has ganged up and pulled a fast one over this whole issue. and, therefore, he's perfectly entitled to come and take the action he's taken. what is your response to that,
if that is indeed what putin is thinking? >> i'm sure that's what he's thinking. i think you're exactly right, here's the problem, and here's putin's problem, whether it's in georgia, ukraine, the west has actually not been particularly provocative with regard to putin. they have been trying to deal with him. he's looked into his eyes and saw a man he could trust. obama tried to reset the relationship with him, clinton used to go out on boozing sessions with his predecessor. clinton drank, we certainly know boris yetten did. the people of ukraine, a large majority of them have wanted to sort of move west, to have their discontinueny be with europe, they have wanted a modern future, they have wanted to be a part of the 20th century, quite similar to what happened in georgia. and that is the dynamic on the ground that putin doesn't know what to do with.
this surprise what happened in ukraine, surprised the west as much as it surprised vladimir putin. what you had was mass demonstrations of lots of people in ukraine, particularly young people who were incensed by the fact that the regime in the ukraine, in kiev was going to force -- was going to rebuff europe and instead cast its lot with russia. that's what produced this dynamic. we're all playing catchup, the people -- the real actors here, the people who have moved the story are the people of ukraine. and the people of ukraine particularly young people, particularly people in the west seem to say we want a future that is outside of the shadow of russian domination. that has produced a kind of complicated set of facts on the ground. it's a complicated situation, but surely the way to respond to that is not to send in thuggish paramilitary troops who do not have markings, because you don't have the courage to admit that
you have effectively invaded cry mere, so you're doing it in this sur repetitious way. the best way to have dealt with this i think would have been to have negotiations, diplomacy, see what the people want, and if they want a special autonomous status, even if they wanted secession, maybe that's possible. but surely i cannot imagine that steve or anyone else would argue this is a good principle of international life to say that every time a major power feels that the country next door to it is acting up, they just go up and gobble a piece of it, if china were to do that with its neighbors, how would we feel? if other countries around the world were to do that, that is the principle that is at stake. not the fact that ukraine is complicated, has divided, all that's true, surely the answer is not the men at sea.
>> let me go back to steven, let me ask you this. you've been branded a putin apologist. which is a trite way of describing what you've been trying to do. which is trying to nondemonize putin, that isn't that helpful to how you deal with him. what is the smart way for the west, for the americans in particular, for president obama to deal now with vladimir putin, you know him well, what is the smart way to deal with him, in a way that will inflame this? >> i don't know him personally, i'm not a putin apologist, i i thank you for saying that, one of the problems we've had in the country any time someone disagrees with the mainstream view about russia or the russian policy, they're called a russian apologist. the way to deal with putin is stop calling him a thug, stop calling him stalin-like and stop calling him saddam. see him as he sees himself, a man who inherited a collapsing
russia. russia collapsed twice 1917 and 1991. his mission was to restore rurg russia to its productivity, pros tearity, and above all its stability at home, and whatever russian think is russian greatness. that includes securing russia's traditional national security zones, that includes ukraine, now, we may say he's wrong, we may see that he doesn't understand modern security. let the discussion begin there. but this dismissing him as a thug and imperialist is a nonstarter, that's where obama and kerry, whoever is doing this, needs to start. there's one other problem. nobody controls anything in ukraine at the moment. putin's trying to control something, but the moderates don't control the fascists in the streets. the united states doesn't control the government in kiev,
that's why kerry is going there tomorrow. not to ask what they want, to tell them to chill out. they have to calm down if they want us to back them. putin is trying to control something. i think those troops, i'm not sure, were from the naval base. it's not an invasion. let's be grown-ups, crimea is russia, it is part of russia, and what's happened this last week ends that story. it's never going to leave russia again, whether it's independent, part of ukraine or part of russia. that story is over. >> i'm going to leave it there. fascinating debate, thank you both for joining me. this will, of course, rumble on hopefully for not too much longer before it gets resolved. it's a tense and dangerous situation. i appreciate both of you for your clarity on that. a beautiful young woman shot to death, what really happened, did oscar pistorius really murder his girlfriend? his trial began today. we'll go to south africa for the latest. just after the scream, i
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dramatic day as we all expected it to be. tell me what happened today. >> well, that courtroom was quite a remarkable place to be in, you really got a sense of occasion, the day it finally had arrived for both families, and hearing that dramatic testimony from the first witness of bloodcurdling screams, throughout that, oscar pistorius writing nights, reeva's mom was there. she was quiet, not detached, but not overly hysterical scenes, no crying, everyone listened intently. we had more than 100 media. it was very quiet during that testimony. all you could hear was the tap tapping of the journalists tweeting away or typing on their laptoping. during cross-examination, there was a flip-flop.
perhaps an uncomfortableness, because this witness was essentially many parts of her testimony taken apart, picked apart, with a very passionate prosecution from the pistorius defense team. a lot happening on day one, and this is what it's going to be like for the next few weeks, the next few months, sort of a roller coaster ride. >> before i let you go, it's been the reaction of south frick to this trial, does it really come down to whether oscar pistorius was wearing his prosthetic legs or not? >> no, i don't think it does come down to that, i think it's a lot more than that. you know, the ballistics will determine whether or not he had his prosthetic legs on. but i think what it really boils down to. this is about one judge. a very respected, experienced judge. listening to legal arguments, procedural arguments. about mistaken identity, about
self-defense, murder, premeditated murder. self-defense again and again, and i think that's what's going to determine, what south african's think, what the police think or oscar's defense think, it all boils down to the judge. it's all about law in the end. >> thank you very much indeed. i want to bring in a man who's known oscar pistorius since he was a child. >> i know you didn't keep in touch with oscar in later years. what was he like when you went to school with him. we're going to come to an extreme parallel, what was he like? >> you know, piers, i lost contact with him when i went to high school. but i knew he -- i was a little older than im, i went to high school with him.
he was always the happiest kid, covered in sweat, everyone always wanted to touch his prosthetic legs. >> he became this national hero, a hero around the world to many people who are suffering perhaps similar disabilities that he had. a huge shock, to anyone who ever knew him like you did, a massive shock. >> it was unbelievable. south africa treats their sports heroes like gods, we put them on a pedestal, and they can do no wrong. when we saw him run in the olympics, everybody had tears in their eyes, we were filled with so much pride, that's why it's so unbelievable to see the situation he's found himself in today. >> the relevant reason i wanted you to be on the show, you grew up in johannesburg, i've been to johannesburg, i did a piece on the world cup football tour there.
it's a violent place, i loved it, violent place, massive gun culture there. a lot of paranoia that comes from the massive gun culture and crime that comes from there, that's all played into oscar pistorius' defense, which is he feared he was under attack from an armed burglar. your family went through a similar incident. tell me about that. >> my sister and my brother-in-law were sleeping late at night, watching the cricket, they were still busy building their six foot wall and electrified fence, when my sister's brother-in-law came down for a late night business. they didn't hear him, because they locked their bedroom doors. they usually do at night, because -- for protection. and they didn't hear the doorbell ring, they didn't hear the doorbell ring again. my sister's brother-in-law walked around to where the bedroom was, and started banging on the bedroom window. it's difficult for a lot of
americans to think that your mind immediately goes to a place of, there's a robber, he has a gun, the lights are not on, the curtain is drawn, he's going to shoot through the window, my brother-in-law took the gun under his bed and aimed it in the direction of the banging. luckily my sister was able to peak through the curtain and see it was her brother-in-law and she yelled to stop fire. that sense of paranoia is always there, you're in a heightened sense of, you have to be alert all the time, if you hear a sound outside, in america, thank goodness, we're blessed to live here, you think, it's a bird, it's a squirrel. there growing up, when i was a kid, if i woke up in the middle of the night, hearing a banging on the window, my mind immediately went to, there is a robber outside. >> so however implausible it may seem, the oscar pistorius defense, to many people who grew up in johannesburg, and other parts of south africa, it's not as implausible as in america or other places.
>> when i speak about this case to my american friends they can't really comprehend, they immediately think he's guilty without all the facts being out. at least in my experience, growing up in johannesburg, it's plausible, his defense. >> thank you for joining me. when we come back, how strong is the case against blade runner, oscar pistorius. we'll be back after the break. when it's donut friday at the office i use my citi thankyou card to get two times the points at the coffee shop. which will help me get to miami...and they'll be stuck at the cube farm. the citi thankyou preferred card. now earn two times the points on dining out with no annual fee. go to citi.com/thankyoucards. olet's say you pay your tguy around 2 percent to manage your money. that's not much, you think except it's 2 percent every year.
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do you understand the charges mr. pistorius? >> i do. i do, my lady. >> how do you plead? >> not guilty. >> oscar pistorius on day one of his murder trial denying committing murder. joining me now is alan dershowitz, kelly phelps. welcome to both of you. alan, it's a fascinating case, because in the end it will come down to pretty much what i just discussed with my last guest. the sense that oscar pistorius is trying to say he was paranoid for his own safety, that is why he did what he did. it may not be plausible to
someone outside, but there, it is a plausible defense. what do you make of it? >> well, absolutely, and you're previous guest, the one who was the reporter from south africa, couldn't have been more incorrect when she said this is going to come down to the law, a debate about the law. and legal. the law is relatively clear and undisputed. this is all about the facts. this is all about the forensics. it's all about the angle of the bullet, it's all about whether the judge believes that he was in fear of his life and made a reasonable mistake of fact. the judge is not going to want to say this, and probably not one of your guests will want to say this. south africa is a failed country. it is a lawless country. it's a country with an extraordinarily high rate of violent crime. and it's a country with deep, deep racial divisions and
problems that we wish had disappeared because we all loved mandela. it's not the reality. now, whether or not this judge is prepared to give credence to the fact that a white person lives in a white gated community would be in fear of his life, if he heard someone climbing through the window, fearing predominantly black intruders and assailants. whether or not the judge is prepared for that, i don't know. it is racial, it is factual, it has nothing to do with the law. >> okay. let me just say, i've been to south africa. it's a wonderful country i remember walking through the town, thinking it was one of the single most inspiring places i've been to in my life. i take issue with alan saying it's a failed country. you're there in cape town, what is the feeling there amongst the
people, take on what he said before the reality of modern south africa. >> i have to say like you, piers, i take issue with allen's statement about south africa being a failed country. we have many deep seeded social problems. in many respects, south africa is a fundamentally dysfunctional country. while there are problems on a daily basis, it functions fundamentally soundly. today that provided a showcase of that to the world. in terms of public perception here, the public has come out quite strongly against mr. pistorius and his version of events and from the outset of bail. in fairness, that is very largely due to the fact that the state of bail came out with some very contentious and controversial allegations
regarding mr. pistorius' conduct on the night in question, that have not actually yet been substantiated with evidence. and it was the statements themselves that infiltrated into the public consciousness more than the fact that they actually were unsubstantiated. and that theme we heard repeated today by pistorius' team in his plea kmangs. and that really is the pressure resting on the state now, they've made the claims and now at trial they finally have to back them up. >> the reason i said earlier about the vital evidential nature of whether he wore the prosthetic legs or not, that seems a critical part of this, it will determine the angle that he fired the gun and the circumstances leading up to him firing the gun. if he's got his legs on, it's a different situation than if he hasn't got the legs on. >> i agree with you. his lawyer took a tremendous risk.
his lawyer got him out on bail by filing a very detailed affidavit giving his account of what actually happened. he did that before he knew what the evidence against him was going to be. now we're hearing evidence come in that may very well contradict what he said in his affidavit. he literally has to take the stand now because he's already put his story forward. and we have, for example, today's testimony of screaming by a woman, presumably a woman, preceding the shooting, which would be inconsistent with what he told in his affidavit. when i say a failed state, let me be clear. the legal system is a gem of the state, and parts of the state are very successful, particularly if you're wealthy and white, and live in nice parts of cape town or johannesburg. when it comes to the area of violent crime and guns, there is no control over guns and no
control over violence. you drive through the streets, you don't stop at red lights, because you're afraid you'll be carjacked. you don't stop in front of people's houses, i do not consider that a successful state. even with all the guns in america, there is no comparison between the daily and nightly life in south africa, and the fear of violent crime than any other country i've been to. >> okay. >> that will be a big issue in this case, as to whether or not people believe his fear base on that issue. >> i concur with that, i think that is the critical part, oscar pistorius was afraid in his own home, paranoid about someone breaking in, that's why he did what he did. i'm going to leave it there. the little gold guy, atop of hollywood tonight, i'll have all the highlights and lowlights of the behind the scenes story of a pizza delivery. i got that guy who had no idea
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>> good moments from last night's oscar telecast. the selfie seen around the world, now retweeted 3 million times, enough to crash twitter. joining me with more oscar highlights and lowlights, "extra" co-host, maria menounos. >> i was watching it, and -- >> let's watch it, john travolta had one name to remember and he did this. >> please welcome the wickedly talented, the one and only adele disaim. >> she was idina. >> who knows what happened. i've screwed up on live television before. >> never happened. >> it's a nervewracking situation. you have everyone in the world watching. >> john travolta.
>> one of the nicest people. >> if you're watching, we've all been there. let's talk about the self-ie seen around the world. the reason i loved this, ten of the most famous people around the world, and right on the right-hand side of the picture is junior who is the kid brother. i met this guy, he comes up to me on the red carpet. he's a massive arsenal fan. he did a selfie with me at his request on my phone. i have the least seen selfie with junior. >> angelina was glowing, she looked like a little kid jumping in there having fun. she's usually so composed.
>> it was going to be ellen and meryl streep and maybe julia roberts. that was the setup they planned, and then the others piled in. the other great moment was the pizza moment, when a certainly delivery man was phoned up a couple days before, and said, we need some pizzas between 5:00 and 9:00 p.m. at a certain address. he didn't work out what was happening here. anyway, edgar is with me. come on, edgar. >> i mean, how -- >> who's your favorite movie star, they're here. who do you want to talk to. >> edgar, here is edgar, now, you are the pizza delivery man. the most famous pizza man in the world right now. these are the very same pizzas that the world's biggest stars ate last night. >> it smells so good. >> let's have a little bit of pizza.
i want to eat exactly like julia roberts ate last night. >> is it true you knew nothing about this? >> nothing. >> you didn't know? >> no. >> when you arrived, what are you then thinking? >> i was shocked and i came out with the pizzas, they told me, wait for the pizzas, and then ellen came out and told me, i'm going to tell you to follow me, and then you -- >> where did you think you were going? >> i didn't know. that's the thing. >> you had no idea? >> no idea. >> you got your pizzas and you're walk out. suddenly you realize you're on stage at the oscars, live to billions of people around the world? >> yes. >> about to feed brad pitt. >> 43 million americans are watching, what are you thinking? >> i'm thinking that's when you say the american dream, this is the real american dream. >> that is so nice. >> you're armenian. you have a big armenian family.
a producer of this very segment is also armenian. a great moment for armenians around the world, for everyone, isn't it? >> when you realized you were serving the most famous people in the world, what were you thinking? >> at that point i was shocked, so -- it was a really great moment. >> then you walk off, and suddenly, you must have a phone on you. so -- >> who's calling you? >> everybody, from russia, from armenia, from my friends here, family, everybody. >> it's a very good pizza. are you enjoying it? >> i'm loving it. >> it's an excellent pizza. >> you're the most famous pizza man in the world. have you doubled your prices? are you doing a special oscar's pizza? what are you doing? >> that's a good idea. >> you should do the brad pitt edition. the what leo missed out on edition.
>> leo failed again -- not failed, he's a fantastic actor and will win oscars. >> incredible performance, too. >> i thought the big six, they got absolutely right. "12 years a slave" was the most bauerful movie i saw. mcconaughey was brilliant in a number of movies. i thought that cate blanchett was a runaway, obvious best actress, jared leto. did you disagree? >> no, i thought everyone in those categories, as usual deserved to be there, but, you know, they were really really amazing this year, there were just the clear winners youen cot avoid. and they did it. >> the only low moment, i didn't like the zinger from ellen at liza minnelli. i interviewed her on the red carpet. she was nervous. she was saluting her mother, the late, great judy garland. that zinger about she could have been a man.
she looked very hurt. the only low moment, otherwise i thought ellen was pretty good. >> the speeches were great. >> the pizza. she and jared leto were the stars last night. >> jared's speech was so poignant to pay tribute to his mom the way he did, and then to honor those who have struggled with this disease was just perfect. >> who were you most excited to see? who were you most excited to see when you walked out there? >> julia roberts. >> has she been back to have any more pizza? >> no. >> listen, edgar, congratulations, it's a fantastic moment, i'm so glad you came on the show. we're loving the pizzas, they're delicious. if you're in the l.a. area, go see edgar. let's take a clip from this, chasing maria menounos, many of us have been trying to do this for a long time. >> here's the problem. >> what?
>> the problem with kids is that you see how little time we have. i'm so tired. but i'm getting to live my dreams, i'm doing everything i ever dreamed and wanted. why would i give that up right now? >> what i like about this, you're living your dream, edgar's living his. your parents are here, maria. there's your mom and dad come to watch you do this interview. i like this. this is like the real american dream at its best sitting right in front of me. >> i appreciate that. i feel like that, my parents are immigrants, they came from a village with no running water, no shoes, and now they're on tv. to me, that's the most fun part of this whole experience, is to see that incredible dream of all dreams come true. >> my dream was always to eat a pizza with maria menounos. >> cheers. >> edgar, cheers. >> thank you. a tribute to the film gravity. a return from the space classic, cosmos, and how family guy has
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we know a little bit about gravity and the lack of gravity. >> congratulations from space for the makers of the movie "gravity." now with me an astrophysicist who is on the show "cosmos." gravity, you have both seen the movie, but i went to see it on my own. it was a stunning piece of special effects and i spoke to astronauts who were like it's not what it is like. >> i saw the movie and i commented on the physics they got wrong. and to my surprise, people went bat crazy over these comments like her hair didn't stand up on end when it should have given that everything else is floating around. and that's what you notice when you see astronauts.
i didn't think that people would be that intense about it. it's a compliment to the film they got so much else right that people would pick at the little things they got wrong. >> it was pretty accurate. >> given the thousand things they got right especially the catastrophic satellite destruction scenario. you can calculate what would happen if one breaks up and creates an exponential decay of the satellites in orbit. >> and carl sagan, what i love about the series you have done is it makes space exciting again to young people. i have young sons who will be enthralled by this. when i was young the family got together and watched the rockets going to space.
and i have felt disheartened it has come to a halt. do you think the series and the movie may galvanize again man to go off into space. >> man and women. >> and women, i'm sorry. >> it's funny you say that. >> i was busted there. >> that's so funny. the original series was going to be called "man and the cosmos" and my first cost contribution if you say that, you will feel silly in about 20 years. that's the dream of the series is first of all we are coming out of the clinch, this failure of nerve, this retreat into magical thinking away from reality is ending. we rediscovered our courage and ready to look at the cosmos and dream. >> to me, it doesn't matter what it costs.
we spend billions and trillions going to war all the time. for the sake of a space travel initiative if i was a president i would want to inspire people. >> we want to influence the people who elect people who serve in congress and president. and if they feel compelled to -- if the show has the influence we hope and expect it reignites the flames of curiosity that we used to have as kids. i'm worried about the adults who are in charge who don't know what science means or what a scientific truth is. >> you're in the perfect position to have a word with some of these people. the biggest selfie of the week wasn't the one from the oscars. let's look at this. >> the cosmic calendar begins on january 1st with the birth of our universe. it contains everything that has happened since then up to now which is now midnight december
31st. >> that's a clip from the movie. but this is what i was getting at which is you with bill nye the science guy and the president in a big selfie. >> the reason that was enabled is because we were invited to the white house for among other reasons to preview, "cosmos." and so, to realize that you have leaders high up that care that much about science to not only invite the screening of it but to participate in the selfie with my good friend, bill nye, it's a statement that times can change. >> you have this giant fruit on my desk. what is it? >> it's a cantaloupe. >> when we come back we'll ask you why? >> why we put a cantaloupe in front of you. that's what happened here. when it's donut friday at the office
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>> eat earth live on television. and final word to you. >> yes. >> i saw a reporter describing your tv series as better than "gravity." what do you hope people take away from it? >> i hope people take away an awakening, a feeling of being alive, the romance of being alive in the cosmos. the grandeur that science reveals about the universe. the possibilities of the future. >> fabulous. what a beautiful way to put it. lovely to meet you both. "cosmos" premiers sunday, march 9th. that's all for us tonight. anderson cooper starts right now. good evening.
independence square, people died a little more than a week and a half ago. it is a memorial to those who died. the spot i am here in independence square, people died a little more than a week and a half ago. it is a memorial to those who died. we'll show you around a little bit. there are barricades and sandbags.